Curse

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

They are part-time chore makers.

I pay them when I'm a bit bored, it's late and I want something done fast, or when I want to see and see something on TV while they run around for me.

Just like when you pay a kid to move the lawn for you.
People should do the chores, but it's not bad to pay other to make them.

Anet should never encourage that, nor make their job easier, but it's not a big deal of an issue.

I would not whine if they closed the door in Beacon's Perch so only those that have been in Droknar's Forge can go to camp rankor or Grenth's footprint, nor strongly ask for it.

I'm not against letting people reaching every outpost by running.
I'm only against skipping primary quest and missions.

CHannum · Jan 23, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olim lll

Actually, you're kidding yourself. Using real world money to buy gold violates GW RoC. Running does not, no matter how you feel about it. If you can't see the difference between an ingame service that does not violate game policy and the real-world-cash-for-game-goodies racket, and all its baggage, your view must be obstructed.

The rules of conduct do not define ethics any more than laws do. I don't buy gold, I don't buy runs, they're only micrometers apart regardless of what is technically allowed by the rules of conduct. The RoC only defines what will and won't get you suspended or banned, just as laws only define what will and won't get you fined or jailed. They have next to nothing to do with actually intelligent and ethical behavior which exists independent of any such rulesets.

Regardless, this is all arguing about a mistake. All you need do is look at the design of all three of the other campaign/expansions to see that the designers clearly never intended running and only allow it because it would take a significant re-write of Prophecies to eliminate something that doesn't matter a whole lot for the non-running majority of the population. It was an unintended cheat mode that has virtually no in game consequences. It is curtailed to some degree in all the other games, most severely in GWEN, and will probably be at least as curtailed in GW2.

angmar_nite · Jan 23, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

The rules of conduct do not define ethics any more than laws do. I don't buy gold, I don't buy runs, they're only micrometers apart regardless of what is technically allowed by the rules of conduct. The RoC only defines what will and won't get you suspended or banned, just as laws only define what will and won't get you fined or jailed. They have next to nothing to do with actually intelligent and ethical behavior which exists independent of any such rulesets.

Regardless, this is all arguing about a mistake. All you need do is look at the design of all three of the other campaign/expansions to see that the designers clearly never intended running and only allow it because it would take a significant re-write of Prophecies to eliminate something that doesn't matter a whole lot for the non-running majority of the population. It was an unintended cheat mode that has virtually no in game consequences. It is curtailed to some degree in all the other games, most severely in GWEN, and will probably be at least as curtailed in GW2.

http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview

Quote:

Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us.

GForce9x · Jan 23, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I don't mind people who run, but people who make joke runs like KC and exploit people who don't know better piss me off. During the recent EotN trial week (or weekend, can't remember), I was messing around and advertised a run from Boreal Station to the Eye of the North for 2k and within seconds I had 6 people trying to join my group. I took them for free and didn't accept any tips, but the thought of how many people were probably scammed that weekend was kinda saddening. Most of the people there on the trial were on a time limit and probably know that the trip was pretty much right around the corner. Luckly, most of the time there were people just hanging out there who were warding off people trying to make money off of that run.

Red Sonya · Jan 23, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Yeah they curtailed it a lot as it used to could be run by only 1 person and only cost 1k or many times free to get the run from Beacons to Droks. Now haha they want like 6k and two people make the run. lol But, the easy to get to high level armor in Kamadan has pretty much taken away a lot of that running business from Beacons to Droks as you can be in max level gear within a matter of a few minutes now, just have to get to Kamadan from the beginning. I don't know why they left that exploit open they were doing so well with the way they did Factions. Once you make the jump from Kamadan to the Docks the quest should stop you from redoing it over n over again. It should be completed once you zone in not after you've talked to an npc or took the mission.

Quote:

Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us.

Want to know the LIE in that statement? If it were true then why did they make the run harder and harder? If it was designed that way why mess with the run in the first place where many people could solo run it? Gaile has always been pretty good at covering up the messes, but, they were/are still messes no less.

Evaine · Jan 23, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I don't mind runners. I've paid for two and I tipped them both too.

I paid to have my Factions Elementalist run to Droknar's Forge. I wanted to see it since so many players have such a burning desire to get there. It came in handy for one of the Wintersday quests.

I paid for a run to get my Ranger through the Elona Reach mission because I had read how horribly hard it is. I appreciated the run but didn't learn a thing about the mechanics of the mission. I still had my Factions Elementalist and Nightfall Necromancer coming through the Crystal Desert so I could either pay to have them run through the mission or do them myself. So far I've done it with my Ele using heros and henchies and I'm looking forward to doing it with my Necro.

Anyway, runners are OK. They provide a service. It's there if you want it and it doesn't seem to violate A-net rules.

What bothers me more are the players who want to be run through every part of the game. The incessant spam from them looking for runners annoys me more than even gold sellers. If I were a runner I’d charge them two or three times my rate. But if that's the way they want to play then so be it. Who or what encourages that behavior? I wonder ...

Dev121 · Jan 23, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Want to know the LIE in that statement? If it were true then why did they make the run harder and harder? If it was designed that way why mess with the run in the first place where many people could solo run it? Gaile has always been pretty good at covering up the messes, but, they were/are still messes no less.

Too increase the challange of the game, when Blue and the others started to conquer that run it was NOT hard, it was just not really understood, over time it got more and more common knowladge and became a easy run, the harder it got the more skill required to complete it. Its the same as 6 man HA, Hard mode and generally making some areas harder, if they made it too hard for you then just use a dervish, if you cant do it on that give up.

carnage-runner · Jan 23, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Hmm what do you think I do?... Running is a facet of the game that can easily be exploited, along with many other things. Running is also one aspect to the game that some people enjoy doing. It also is great for new players who don't know much about where they are or what to do. "Go die and watch" Respect the runner and the runnee. No sense in abusing someone elses ignorance. Point in fact, running is part of the game like many other things, and as such can be abused. Oh btw... First char, lvl 12 Necro at BP->Droks for 2.5K. Best 2.5K I think I ever spent:P

Tutis Evito · Jan 23, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

man if i see someone advertising for KC runs i just start advertising the run for free, it takes 30secs and it shuts the scammers up

Dev121 · Jan 23, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutis Evito

man if i see someone advertising for KC runs i just start advertising the run for free, it takes 30secs and it shuts the scammers up

Its not a scam if they are providing a service, it doesnt matter what the service is as long as both the customer knows what they are paying for then it is not a scam, use better language when you make points like that.

Tutis Evito · Jan 23, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

pfft....whinge whinge whinge.... if someone is at the market selling a apple for £1 where next to him was a farmer standing in an orchad offer free apples, the guy selling them for £1 would be trying to scam me into buying one....the word scam is down to your own interpretation here, dont flame.

carnage-runner · Jan 23, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Well you gotta see the logic behind the word "scam" implying someone is being cheated out of something. Say abuse, or taking advantage of. Those are way more accurate for the current topic. Say I tell you i'll run KC for 25K. Because it's super super hard and long. But I'll need the money up front. Then we go in and i laugh at you and Lol you and call you a NOOB and a tOoL and such. Then leave. There's a good scam. But if I tell you all of that and do the run. It was my opinion that you believed. I took advantage of the fact that you didn't know anything about the area. Not scam.

Dev121 · Jan 23, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutis Evito

pfft....whinge whinge whinge.... if someone is at the market selling a apple for £1 where next to him was a farmer standing in an orchad offer free apples, the guy selling them for £1 would be trying to scam me into buying one....the word scam is down to your own interpretation here, dont flame.

LOL? What sort of response is that, thats like saying: I saw a guy selling an axe for 100k, then another guy with the same axe for 2k but I bought the 100k axe because that guy tricked me into it. Sorry but if you want to reply to one of my no need to reply to this responses with a response that is equal to a response made to someone who's post did not need a response which you respond to anyway, confused? Good, go with the flow.

mr_stealth · Jan 23, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

I think the original intention for running (primarily droks) was for PvPers to be able to cap and unlock elites without being forced to go through the entire PvE storyline. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe at that elites had to be unlocked via cap sig in the early days of the game. The original intent for runs isn't really a valid point anymore, with faction unlocks and PvP skillpacks making skills available without ever making a PvE character.

The locked gates in more recent campaigns give the message that PvE characters made for PvE play were not supposed to be skipping past storyline missions. It would have been a lot work to go back and add this system to prophecies, so it was held off until Factions. If being able to get to any town without playing your way through the game was an intended feature, we would not have locked gates and the "guild hall ferry" glitch would not have been fixed (or at least not as quickly as it was fixed).

**cosyfiep** · Jan 23, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Various reasons - maybe you just want to goof off in the UW with your guild and have to have a specific elite, maybe you like being a "god" in low level areas, maybe you like doing something other than what cosyfiep does (and since you are not the God of Gaming and are able to declare all things Fun or Not Fun I can see where others disagree).

For myself I don't care much for runs on "mains" - they are where they are through their own volition. But for a farming character? They aren't there to play, they are there to acquire gold - I don't really enjoy playing a monk or ritualist but I do find some farming runs enjoyable with them - why should I then spend how many hours of not having fun to get to that point?

Then there are things that used to not be possible but now are. The last run I got was on my Canthan born necro to cap Spiteful Spirit once she unlocked Tyria (she was level 20 at the time and past Vizunah Square - I decided to change from Death to Curse). It was *less* abusive than my re-roll of a ranger who purchased an elite ranger tome at level two and learn "Barrage". Was that Evil(Tm) and avoiding playing the character? Why is that remotely worse than purchasing an Elite Necro tome - that is even *less* playing than the run! (in my case it was the fourth time I had capped the skill). Both are obviously part of the game mechanics.

Meh, the purpose of a game is to have fun, if I'm not doing that then something is wrong. Of course, if my definition of "fun" is to ruin others gaming time (read griefers, kill stealer's, and other types of disruptive individuals) then no, that doesn't count in what I am talking about. However there are quite a few reasons to purchase a run. I tend to agree that if you are using runners to avoid playing the game then why "play"? But then I suspect few are really doing that if for no other reason than the cost needed for a runner ensures quite a bit of playing to get to that level (or e-bay gold, which generally results in a perma-ban).

In the end I would rather have an individual purchasing chapters/expansion and helping keep the game alive yet not playing in the way I would than being "pure" and having a dead game. Of course, that is your choice and many seem to indicate they would rather have a dead game - but then Anet more or less sides with me on this one (now, if only they would have on the BMP debacle).

Actually I have no problem with the runs you are suggesting....capping a skill that you can obviously have done on your own is fine....
goofing off in the UW still would require a level 20 character who has done some of the game play----also ok. The ones I more have problems with are the level 4 in the bone palace who CANT go anywhere without a group since he will die (even with his spiffffy new max armor)....
Your reasons are valid so I see no problem with them. As has been pointed out many people NEW to the game are getting runs as well, and never taking the time to learn how to play, that defeats the purpose.

(and Red, yes I can quit and have many times for extended periods.....and I dont even think about gw when I am not at home in front of my computer. The reason for having more characters is to replay the game....once ele A has finished all three chapters and eton and has all the skills and titles, she is boring, so I make a new ele ---ele B and start again, I dont delete she may get out and do UW or such or collect armor, so I keep A around.)

(and also I express my opinions, not as an insult but in a well thought out manner on the subject that was put before us....not as an insult to anyone.)

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Better they run to cap, that cap inside a mission and leave, by the way.

Komerad · Feb 12, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

What do I Think of runners?

I did not know that Prince Rurik died till last proph mission

(Reason for that is : I simply skip all the movies)

I play with a strict schedule, Do runs too, places and towns. Now I have run my mule accounts d/a and m/me from kamadan to Lutgardis for some powerleveling.. again this fits the schedule as I need tons of factions

But afterwards they can do some runs for my other character when one needs one (only eotn atfh run will be handy to give myself ^^)

arsie · Feb 12, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

I always rat on people selling runs from Marketplace to Kaineng City.

As for runs, I only did the Drok's run on my 6th character (I created him to get free skills), but I am quite glad I got a desert tour and a south shiverspeak tour on my 1st character.

Nightfall is a paradox. Max armour is so easy to get (I've got a few docks ferries), but yet they put all the hurdles for getting to Kodash Bazaar.

enter_the_zone · Feb 12, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I pay for runners for things like RoM and Great Destroyer. Sure, I could do these myself, and did the first time, but I really can't be bothered to redo the on char number 7.

I tend to run myself places using my brothers account if I want to skip content. I've also done a few runs from Boreal Station to Doomlore Shrine for people to get CoF for 600ing, or Longeye Ledge for Glacial Farming. I don't tend to charge for these, as I normally run one of my own chars who needs a place at the same time.

I have no problem with any amount of running or power leveling, it's a useful tool for bringing on characters who would otherwise never make lvl20. That said, being run your first time through the game is not something I would do, except maybe Droks had I known about it.

Mission runs are useful for classes which may find it difficult to H/H or Pug an area or for people who just want to progress consistently, not retry a mission 4 times or more (THK M+B springs to mind)

And Marketplace to KC isn't a run, it's a scam. In the same way that a con-man scams people out of money.

Also, those who get a run, and then don't pay, are slime. Really, wtf is that about? If you agree to a price, you pay it. Try to have some honor. Oh wait, human shaped pussbags have no honor or morals or integrity.

Bluefeather · Feb 12, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Runners are great help if you really want to be good at this game.

Prophecy - my Ranger Character was in Drok's at level 1 and got my first elite before i even reach level 5.

Faction - i don't have a good experience here. only played for a short period of time. retired as soon as my assassin made it to level 20. i never asked anyone to run for me.

Nightfall run is essential (the one that will bring you to dock to buy the armor). I paid 500g, bought my armor, played until i reach level 10 in the first map together with Koss. Went to GW:EN. Capped my first elite skill before I got my second profession. Recruited Livia (and other heroes that you automatically get along the story line).

I was able to do those things because I have a good armor which i got at level 2. My first character did well (Derv) but i never got the armor at the early stage of the game because i didn't know that armor was only that near.

Now i am doing it better (Paragon). Thanks to NF Dock Runners!